We Have Met the Enemy and He is Us (107 comments )


One of the mysteries of American public morality is why there is so little public outcry about the Bush Administration’s support for torture. It’s not as if this is a big secret. Each week brings a fresh revelation about U.S. treatment of prisoners in violation of the Geneva conventions. On November 2nd, the Washington Post reported that alleged members of Al Qaeda are being held in “black sites,” a CIA prison system in Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay, Thailand, and Eastern European countries.

These facilities are kept secret so that they won’t come under the scrutiny of Congress, the Red Cross, or other international agencies; an arrangement that permits the CIA to hold suspects for as long as they want, “off the books,” and use whatever techniques they feel are necessary.

Apparently, Americans ignore the irony that we overthrew Saddam Hussein to free Iraqis from his brutality and, now, are substituting our own.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-burnett/...nd_b_10310.html

Hi. I started this thread because I would really like to get your opinions on why you think there is not a huge public outcry on this issue.

Almost every major newspaper in the country is reporting on this issue (weekly and sometimes almost daily). Almost all the major newspapers and quite a few of the smaller papers are running numerous editorials. The story is even spilling into cable broadcasts. The Republicans in Congress are bucking their own president because of this issue and yet there is very little discussion occuring on political websites. I can't figure it out because I think this is a HUGE issue that has impeachment written all over it.

Last week I sent emails to Senator McConnell, Senator McCain, Rep. Northup and Denny Hastert concerning the McCain amendment that this adminstration is trying to either kill outright or through the CIA exemption. I asked for other people, on the political website where I work, to please send emails. I mean I was BEGGING. There were a few people who were as outraged as I was, but overall there wasn't much interest. To put it bluntly the topic was pretty much ignored.

I hope you guys will let me know why you think there is so little outrage being expressed.

Thanks.

This troubles me also. As a Christian, I feel it would be natural for the Church to lead the protests. Many of the battles over social injustice have started with religious groups. The problem of course is that the Right Wing Christians convinced their flock to believe that God put Bush in the White House. Therefore, he couldn't possibly be responsible for torture...it wouldn't be Godly. So they take the easy way out and blame the members of the military who were actually pictured participating in torture. They are more comfortable with that conclusion.

As for the press and the rest of the country, my guess would be denial. Years ago when the US started falling behind in education, there was a commerical showing a little American girl going to the back of the classroom while children of other nations advanced. It was an effective, startling statement. Yet instead of being shocked in to action, parents demanded it be taken off the air and the networks did so.

To acknowlege a problem then requires action. Sadly, I believe most Americans would rather ignore it and hope it goes away.

These are just my thoughts on the subject.

The existence of these so-called "black sites" need to be investigated and stopped. Even most republicans did not know about this. Although I am sure those on the intelligence committee did.

Hi Judy. Why do you think there is so little public outrage being expressed on this issue?



You make very good points. I wonder how we can these attitudes in order to get them to take action?

I read a recent editorial that appeared in the Catholic Weekly that condemned what we have done but other than that I haven't heard a lot from the churches on this issue. I haven't heard anything from the Pope either, have you?

If I were a church going person I would ask my church why they are not speaking out on this issue.

Does anyone here go to a church where they are speaking out on the abuse of prisoner issue?

This issue about the "black sites" is just hittting the press and hasn't sunk in. We also have so many other outrageous things going on at the moment.

Patty, I will jump in with - I think this isn't resonating with lots of people because it is not something that most people have any experience discussing. It is so incredible that our country could sink to this level. Our great country...still unable to heal after 9/11 and decide how to react with sanity to what happened that day - being led by a president who has preached the gospel of retaliation. And burdened by so many economic worries...it's hard to know where one's outrage should be focused. So, we watch "Desperate Housewives" and "American Idol" and "Survivor" - hoping the realities of war are just made up stories.

Churches don't want to deal with the difficult issues...it's all about feeling good isn't it? America is so spoiled.

You may be right about the average citizen but it still reminds me too much of the way the German people acted during WWII.

I guess what really puzzles me is that even people who are poltically active don't seem to be outraged enough to even follow what is going on, much less willing to discuss it. I know on our website we had a lot of people following all of the articles that came out speculating about what would happen with Fitzgerald. I just don't see that kind of interest on this subject even though this subject has just as many twists and turns and may be potentially more damaging to this adminstration.

I have also noticed that there is no polling on this issue. I might have to write to Zogby and ask him why not.

You know I just wonder if the release of the additional photos and video that the ACLU has been fighting to obtain will finally be what opens the floodgates on this issue.

Wes Clark is supposed to be on cspan 2 at 6 a.m. today. He will be speaking about human rights. I hope he brings up this issue.

I see what you mean about the Fizgerald story and the lack of polling...did you get up to watch Wes Clark?? 6:00 a.m - not such a good time for a Saturday morning...maybe it will be shown again.

Pictures of the atrocities, while difficult to view, are necessary for our visual world. Right wing radio makes light of the Abu Ghraib pictures as being no more than harmless fraternity pranks. They work so hard to convince people that all of this is ok when dealing with "terrorists."

But there MUST be pictures that are not so easily dismissed.

If you have a letter that you have written, or if you have a site that you like, we can feature it on the Portal as an Action Item, Patty. What Web sites do you recommend? And if you will compile a list of the phone numbers for pollsters, we can ask the members to make some calls - it too can be an Action Item.

Thanks for this important discussion, Patty. I hope you will continue to share everything you learn about "Iraq war crimes" with JREG.