Information for inquiring minds.
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Bill, Hillary Clinton Use Billy Graham to Gain Political Ground

Some disappointed that Graham too friendly with the morally bankrupt

National Clergy Council president Rev. Rob Schenck (pronounced SHANK) walked out on his role model Billy Graham after the evangelist surrendered his microphone to Bill Clinton on the third night of his New York City crusade, then gave a veiled endorsement to Senator Hillary Clinton who was sitting nearby on stage.

According to the Associated Press, when Bill Clinton joined him on stage, Graham "quipp[ed] that the former president should become an evangelist and allow 'his wife to run the country.'"

The Truth about Hillary: What She Knew, When She Knew It, and How Far She'll Go to Become President

Rev. Schenck has considered Billy Graham his role model for over 25 years. That's why the Capitol Hill minister traveled from Washington, DC, to New York City this weekend to witness what may be the ailing evangelist's last crusade. But after he saw the Clintons exploit the aging Graham, he couldn't bear to stay and hear him preach.

"I was stunned and appalled," said Schenck, who left the Flushing Meadows Park as Graham was still complimenting the Clintons.

Read Whole Story
http://www.dakotavoice.com/200506/20050626_1.asp
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Brought to us by: The Dakota Voice

From CP

Does this pompous SOB ever consider that his cronies on the far right have made us feel that way for years? That many, many liberals feel as if they haven't left the Church, but rather the Church has left them?

I am not a traditionally religious person and subscribe to no particular creed....however, I detest the way that the Right seems to think that they somehow have laid claim to God and use this to push their ungodly political agenda.

Let this ass go ahead and insult Billy Graham all he wants....see how far thats going to get him.

If anyone has read Bill Clinton's book they would know that his admiration for Billy Graham goes back to his teenage years. He secretly sent him money for years after hearing him at a revival....but, we know how demonically clever those Clintons are....no doubt Bill wrote about that in his book over a year ago knowing that Graham would come to NY to do a revival and have he and Hilary onstage so he could be forced to endorse them......

Hmm... Interesting comments Teresa22.

Thank you very much for your thoughts on this issue.

I really enjoyed what you had to say. It is a little bit early now for me to comment on this... I'm still trying to put two and two together.

I'm going to look into this a little bit more.

Thank you very much Teresa22.

Sincerely,
CP

Well, I hate to tell the Dakota Voice (an Evangelical Web site) and Rev. Schenck but the Clintons didn't 'exploit' Rev. Graham. Quite the contrary, HE invited them to join HIM. Does the Rev. Schenck really think the Clintons could 'force' Rev. Graham to have them on HIS stage?

CP, I was wondering how the Evangelicals were feeling about this. This may be the biggest hit on the Evangelicals they could ever imagine.

Actions speak louder than words. And Rev. Graham is definitely making a statement with his actions. He is not in good health, so I think this FINAL Crusade is something that he feels he must do.

Thank you, Rev. Graham. Thank you very much.

I believe Billy Graham has counciled many former Presidents. I know for sure that Nixon and Reagan and Bush used him. Graham is a man of the cloth and many people including myself like him for his sermons. Graham has also met with John Kennedy, Billy Carter in addition to Bill Clinton. I think I heard one time where Billy Graham was Republican. Most rich people are.

I am sick to death of the Republicans using religion to do the dumb things they do.
It is for certain that the Repubs have used every trick there is to humiliate and belittle the Democratic party. As long as the Democratic party chooses a good leader of moral background, the Repubs cannot tear this person down. I'm talking JRE as the man to lead us in 2008. The Repubs tried last year, and all they could come up with was an attack on JRE's brother ten years ago for driving under the influence. His brother was a very young man at the time, and who hasn't at one time in their youthful years did something that wasn't kosher? It's nice GWB can say he is a born again Christian, 'cause he sure has done some hell raising in his time.

We Democrats just have to be ready to fight fire with fire when the time comes and stand up for what we believe.

Hello suswah,

I could probably guess, but I really can't say.

suswah, do you know anything about the history of Billy Ghram during Jim Crow and the Civil Rights movement?

I come from a family that knows Billy Ghram before you and I were born and I'm fourty-four years old.

So if you don't know of some of the history of Billy Ghram, I will definitely get back with you on that because I know a lot.

I don't see Billy Ghram in the same eye that you do because of some of the historical things I know with regard to a lot of serious events of the mid 40's through the late 60's.

suswah, I wish could talk with my mom about Billy Ghram for about thirty minutes or as long as you want, and you will have a really eye opening experience.

Let me know if you know any history of Billy Ghram of this era in American History.

Sincerely,
CP

I agree with your centiment JRote.

Do you know anything about the history of Billy Ghram during Jim Crow and the Civil Rights movement?

Ok JRote. You probably do, or maybe there's a big.... ? in your mind now that I've asked you that question, but I won't leave you hanging. You know that.

Thank you for your response JRote.

Sincerely,
CP

Because I post mainly in 3 places, occasionally I get mixed up about what and where I hear things, but here goes:

I heard about 4 months ago that Billy Graham is and has been a Dem all of his life.

CP, Bill Clinton has spoken highly of Billy Graham's stand against segregation in the South during the 1960s. Larry King talked with Rev. Graham about this on his show this weekend, too. What does your Mom have to say about Rev. Graham?

I do know something about Billy Graham - being from Texas - surrounded by Baptists, it's impossible to not know about Billy Graham.

He has been held in extremely high esteem around these parts. And doing some google searches this evening, I have found some very disturbing Web sites that are very critical of Rev. Graham. One of them happens to be the one you cited with the beginning post in this topic.

Seems Rev. Graham has brought world leaders onto his stage that some may not approve of. Nelson Mandela for one. Before googling, I had no idea there was so much hatred out there for him. One site even talked about his daughter - and how she shouldn't be preaching.

And he was caught on the Nixon tapes discussing Israel with Nixon. He said some very questionable things about Jews - and later apologized profusely for them. He had no idea his conversation was being recorded, of course. Oh, well. I don't think he is a Saint - just a really good and world famous Baptist preacher.

Inviting the Clintons to his stage was significant. Looks like it made some Evangelicals real upset. I'm sure he knew that would happen. So, I guess he doesn't care what these Evangelicals think. And that's why this event was so profound. It was a slap in the face to the radical right - the Clinton haters.

And that includes the wacko Bush administration which has embraced the Evangelicals in order to achieve and/or maintain political power.

These people that criticize Rev. Graham for being friendly with the Clintons do not understand what it is to be Christlike and Godly. Jesus sat with the sinners and felt at home because these were the people he could minister to. These political SOBs need to learn that God and Jesus would not approve of what they are doing. Jesus, in fact, scoprned religion and was not like by the religious people of his day. Rev. Graham was carrying the meesage of the loving God and not the angry God. They criticize him because he lived Gods word and never politicized it. Rev. Graham beleives that religion and politics should not be mixed.

More power to him for being friends with the Clintons. None of us are perfect especially not these people on the Religious right.

Let he who has no sin cast the first stone.

This is it. Thank you, Judy.

you are welcome, suswah.

Most of you know I am a Christian. I was raised in a Christian home. It was a sermon Billy Graham was preaching through which I made my personal committment to Christ. Billy Graham means the world to me !
He has been a "lifelong Democrat". He has been friends with Democrats and Republicans and learned early on not to mix politics and religion. He has been friends with the Clinton's since Bill was Gov. of Ark.
I personally think that Billy knows he is nearing the end of his earthly life. His kids have said some pretty awful things through being influenced by radical right-wing people.
I cannot speak for him, but he must be aware that the greatest enemy of the message of Christ's love and forgiveness in the 21st century is political alliances with any party. I believe he is trying to tell people to knock it off and get back to business with spreading the real message of Jesus Christ. That is to love one another and not judge.

Debbi--

I feel that the greatest threat to spirtuality and the grace given us by god is the politicization of that message. It is fine for individuals to vote accordimg to their values, even religious values, but itr is not OK to use our faith as a way to attack people. It shows little faith when we claim others do have faith because they feel differently about their rekigious values influencing them. The most disgusting thing that I saw was the Justice Sunday thing. It was unfait to declare that we needed to "Sop the filibuster against people of faith."

I agree. Loving each other and not judging is what we are suposed to do. THese right-wingers need to learn that.

AMEN !!

suswah,

Good work. You found it. I already had this information, but I didn't want to post any of it until I thought about this issue a little longer.

You have done great research.

These issues are just the issues that my family and I discuss often relative to Mr. Ghram.

suswah, I am not a religious person in a sense of some extremities. To a great extent, many Americans, as I am an American, that's the only reason that I specify Americans, use religion to create wars to disagree in a heated, argumentive manner. Also, it creates, to my opinion, animocity between all of the world's great religions in the worst way as human beings will try to forcefully push their own beliefs and religious faith to be the number one religion or faith of the planet.

As I am very open minded when it comes to all the world's great religions, I personally consider all the world's great religions to the same degree of validity.

That's my personal belief. I have family members who are muslims, Christians, Bahias, Mormans, and as we all come together as family, my number one goal is to let them know that I love and respect all of them in their personal, religious beliefs equally.

suswah, I appreciate the work that you have done here today with regard to this issue because I really didn't want to post these truths of American history with regard to Billy Ghram.

My mom is a Christian, I spoke with my mom. Mom says maybe he's really sorry for a lot of his not so good qualities of the past. And maybe within the privacy of his own life, to his Christian beliefs, he settled his differences with his lord and savior.

So, I said to mom, maybe your right, and that is why I was not going to post that information so quickly.

suswah, I guess you can consider me an egnostic evolutionist with a great respect to all God's people and all historical levels of theology that God's people cherish the most.

Thank you for your very good work and response suswah.

Sincerely,
CP

Debbi, you make a very good point and your last sentence sums it all up.

I will not argue religion for I feel that religion is a very, very personal, individual belief of one's religious faith in their individual relationship with their God(s)

I judge no one based on their religious beliefs and faith to who or whatever they choose to be their God(s). I only treat all the people of the world as I would like to be treated.

Bless you Debbi.

Sincerely,
CP

Judy, my statements are a reply to you. I made a mistake of your statements to Debbi.

Sorry about that.

Sincerely,
CP

CP:

It's allright we all make mistakes.

Judy

Thank you Judy.

Sometimes I'm looking at names, and I'm not really paying attention as I am trying to think about what I'm trying to say.

Sorry again.

CP

CP:

No apology needed. I have done the same thing. It is ok. Sometimes it is better to get what you want to say right.

Don't worry about it.

Judy

Thank you for your comments, CP. When Billy Graham shows that he is not falling into the same mindset of this administration - well, it's significant.

Former U.N. Ambassador John Danforth (an Episcopalian minister) has spoken out in writing, but Billy Graham did a visual protest. The visual is probably more powerful. I'm so glad that well-respected "Christians" are speaking out or making strong statements about the "Fristians." It's about time. And I hope it's not too late.

JRE Grassroots Discussion about Danforth

I agree with your centiment 100% suswah.

Thank you for your response.

Sincerely,
CP

I have heard three devout Christians speak out this week. Billy Graham, Walter Cronkite and Bill Moyers. Maybe they have decided enough is enough and they are going to help reclaim Christianity as a religion and not a political movement. One can hope ...and pray !