Alexa
Nov 20 2004, 10:09 PM
[quote]John Kerry may wage war against Viet war veteran
New York | November 19, 2004 3:39:00 PM IST
After losing to George Bush in the presidential elections , John Kerry is now preparing for another fight with John O'Neill, the "Unfit for Command" author who claims some of the credit for Kerry's defeat.
In the book, O'Neill, who, like Kerry, commanded swift boats in Vietnam , severly criticised Kerry's war record and branded him a traitor.
O'Neill reportedly sold over 800,000 copies of the book and his group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, raised 25 million dollars to battle the Kerry campaign and ran TV ads trashing the candidate.
According to the New York Post, Kerry is said to be furious with his staffers who advised him not to fight back against O'Neill.
"The Kerry camp is thinking about filing a libel lawsuit against Regnery and O'Neill," a source close to the candidate's inner circle was quoted by the paper, as saying.
"I don't know if they will actually go forward, but consideration is serious. If Kerry plans on running again in 2008 - and I'm hearing he will - it would make sense that he'd file the suit," he source added.(ANI)
Web India link[/quote]
O'Neill gloats about Kerry's defeat: :evil:
http://snipurl.com/asca
ncMindy
Nov 20 2004, 10:22 PM
[quote]O'Neill gloats about Kerry's defeat.[/quote]
Yes, he does and they give him plenty of airtime, still. :twisted:
O'Neill feels the Vietnam vets were vindicated by Kerry losing. He never branded all of them war criminals, Kerry needs to fight. That is the one question I have about the campaign. The decision should have been Kerry's not the campaign. Kerry has been haunted since Nixon by this group, he knew O'Neill was a formidable enemy. He deserves to be mad.
I hope, by gosh, he does do something about it.
Alexa
Nov 20 2004, 10:31 PM
[quote=ncMindy][quote]O'Neill gloats about Kerry's defeat.[/quote]
Yes, he does and they give him plenty of airtime, still. :twisted:
O'Neill feels the Vietnam vets were vindicated by Kerry losing. He never branded all of them war criminals, Kerry needs to fight. That is the one question I have about the campaign. The decision should have been Kerry's not the campaign. Kerry has been haunted since Nixon by this group, he knew O'Neill was a formidable enemy. He deserves to be mad.
I hope, by gosh, he does do something about it.[/quote]
I agree completely. I hope Kerry sues the pants off O'Neill (yick, didn't need that visual). I don't know how much those ads hurt Kerry but he wanted to fight, and I think he should have. O'Neill is still lying like the dog he is. John Kerry never called him a `terra-ist`.
judykratochvil
Nov 20 2004, 10:37 PM
He should absolutely go for it. He has a case and would have a good chance of winning because of course they did what they did with milicious intent.
ncMindy
Nov 20 2004, 10:47 PM
[quote=judykratochvil]He should absolutely go for it. He has a case and would have a good chance of winning because of course they did what they did with milicious intent.[/quote]
O'Neil was on `C-Span` one morning taking phone calls. Someone called in from Texas and said, Mr. O'Neil - your name is very much feared in Texas. Wonder what that guy meant? O'Neil is a lawyer, maybe somebody from Texas can tell us. Susan - where are you?
suswah
Nov 21 2004, 01:52 AM
[quote=ncMindy][quote=judykratochvil]He should absolutely go for it. He has a case and would have a good chance of winning because of course they did what they did with milicious intent.[/quote]
O'Neil was on `C-Span` one morning taking phone calls. Someone called in from Texas and said, Mr. O'Neil - your name is very much feared in Texas. Wonder what that guy meant? O'Neil is a lawyer, maybe somebody from Texas can tell us. Susan - where are you?

[/quote]
I think it may be the Nixon/Colson connection that followed him thoughout his life. He was considered the Golden Boy by Nixon and the protege of Chuck Colson (Nixon's primary dirty trickster).
Don't you think that connection alone would create a little fear in people?
And Nixon absolutely feared Kerry. O'Neill was introduced to Nixon and soon became the weapon against Kerry. It is so ironic, that O'Neill would very likely have had a stellar political career had Nixon and his gang not been thrown out of Washington.
Kerry had the career and life on the world's stage that O'Neill himself seemed destined to achieve when both were very young. And although O'Neill has been quite successful as a lawyer in Houston, he must have relished the opportunity for revenge so many years later.
Shakespeare couldn't have written it any better.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...`eadlines-nation`
http://www.rightwingnews.com/interviews/johno.php
http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/...l/index_np.html
ncMindy
Nov 21 2004, 02:33 AM
[quote=suswah][quote=ncMindy][quote=judykratochvil]He should absolutely go for it. He has a case and would have a good chance of winning because of course they did what they did with milicious intent.[/quote]
O'Neil was on `C-Span` one morning taking phone calls. Someone called in from Texas and said, Mr. O'Neil - your name is very much feared in Texas. Wonder what that guy meant? O'Neil is a lawyer, maybe somebody from Texas can tell us. Susan - where are you?

[/quote]
I think it may be the Nixon/Colson connection that followed him thoughout his life. He was considered the Golden Boy by Nixon and the protege of Chuck Colson (Nixon's primary dirty trickster).
Don't you think that connection alone would create a little fear in people?
And Nixon absolutely feared Kerry. O'Neill was introduced to Nixon and soon became the weapon against Kerry. It is so ironic, that O'Neill would very likely have had a stellar political career had Nixon and his gang not been thrown out of Washington.
Kerry had the career and life on the world's stage that O'Neill himself seemed destined to achieve when both were very young. And although O'Neill has been quite successful as a lawyer in Houston, he must have relished the opportunity for revenge so many years later.
Shakespeare couldn't have written it any better.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...`eadlines-nation`
http://www.rightwingnews.com/interviews/johno.php
http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/...l/index_np.html
Gosh, am I glad to see you, Susan. I knew you would know what that man meant.
Yeah, Nixon and Colson would strike fear in any person! :shock:
Now we have the truth, O'Neill could have been everything Kerry is, but the impeachment of Nixon took O'Neill's power. Oh yeah, I got it now. It is all about jealously, has nothing to do with Vietnam. Vietnam is an excuse to attack Kerry and hope to ruin his chance at being President. Low down dirty, Texas dog with friends in high places. :evil:
Now I come back to, WHY did the campaign not allow Kerry to fight back?
The FBI followed Kerry for about 2 years, that man is so clean he could be an SOS pad. I'm more furious than ever now. :twisted: We needed to fully discredit O'Neill, and could have. So, Kerry's old enemy achieved his dream, he won the battle. Kept Kerry from fulfilling his last dream.
And, we lost a man who given the chance, could have been the greatest President our country has ever seen. :evil: Thanks to all the people who believed the Rove bullcrap and voted for *W* another Texas, dirty dog.
[quote]Shakespeare couldn't have written it any better.[/quote]
You are right about that, Susan. Thank you for the links, everyone needs to read all this. Maybe some will see they put the wrong person in office. And they fell for all the lies, 'Swift Boat' my butt.
owlhelper
Nov 21 2004, 08:48 AM
There were several big errors made by this campaign and the fact that they didn't let Kerry straighten this out was one of them. He should have had an ad out within 24 hours that would have shut them up for good, but he didn't.
I hope he does sue them. As Democrats we need to make sure everyone understands what our values are.
judykratochvil
Nov 21 2004, 09:28 AM
[quote=owlhelper]There were several big errors made by this campaign and the fact that they didn't let Kerry straighten this out was one of them. He should have had an ad out within 24 hours that would have shut them up for good, but he didn't.
I hope he does sue them. As Democrats we need to make sure everyone understands what our values are.[/quote]
I absolutely agree with this. I criticized the lack of defense heavily at the time. He should have counter punched in the same news cycle.
Teresa22
Nov 21 2004, 11:25 AM
You know, maybe this is what Kerry needs to do....lets face it, he lost the campaign due to the "other side" being willing to out and out lie without any real consequence. Now, I know that there's always a bit of "stretching the truth" in all campaigns, but somewhere, somehow, we have to get back to the idea that downright lies and slander will not be tolerated...
sirius
Nov 21 2004, 11:33 AM
I hope Kerry sues them. I hope he wins big and gets a settlement that will put those Swift Boat guys in the America that has to worry about whether they have health care or not. Considering that the consequence of their lies may have been that he lost out on the presidency and the American people lost out on a potentially great leader, I hope the settlement is HUGE.
beinlicht
Nov 21 2004, 01:14 PM
John Kerry lost the election due to all the voter fraud. The swifties did hurt him in August but by October he had gained it back. If the site is still up you can see the polls for each state.
www.`electoral-vote`.com
I am all for John Kerry suing. That fat head O'Neill has been attacking Kerry for 20 years or more. O'Neill needs to be put in his place once and for all by Kerry. If he doesn't it will be like admitting O'Neill is telling the truth. We all know O'Neill is a liar.
suswah
Nov 21 2004, 06:40 PM
[quote=beinlicht]John Kerry lost the election due to all the voter fraud. The swifties did hurt him in August but by October he had gained it back. If the site is still up you can see the polls for each state.
www.`electoral-vote`.com
I am all for John Kerry suing. That fat head O'Neill has been attacking Kerry for 20 years or more. O'Neill needs to be put in his place once and for all by Kerry. If he doesn't it will be like admitting O'Neill is telling the truth. We all know O'Neill is a liar.[/quote]
And O'Neill admits that he didn't like Bush particularly. (Well, that makes sense since Bush kind of avoided going to Vietnam). He also states that he liked Edwards in 2003.
One thing is for sure. Both O'Neill and Kerry are passionate men - and I doubt this Shakespearean play is over, yet.
Political rivalries like this one are really never over. Not unless they find a mutual enemy, :idea:
judykratochvil
Nov 21 2004, 07:15 PM
[quote=suswah]And O'Neill admits that he didn't like Bush particularly. (Well, that makes sense since Bush kind of avoided going to Vietnam). He also states that he liked Edwards in 2003.
One thing is for sure. Both O'Neill and Kerry are passionate men - and I doubt this Shakespearean play is over, yet.
Political rivalries like this one are really never over. Not unless they find a mutual enemy, :idea:
This is interesting. This political rivalry between O'Neill and Kerry just got started. It will be long lived. I just hope the O'Neill starts being more civil.
I do believe that if Kerry sues for Libel he win. The evidence is the book Unfit for Command. I also beleive that Kerry has a case for defamation of charachter and slander. He will win on at least one of these counts. Political speech is protected only to a point. Commercial speech (advertisements) is a liitle trickier. There are many thorny issues in this situation.
rox63
Nov 21 2004, 09:26 PM
[quote="judykratochvil"][quote=suswah][color=darkblue]And O'Neill This is interesting. This political rivalry between O'Neill and Kerry just got started. It will be long lived. I just hope the O'Neill starts being more civil.
I do believe that if Kerry sues for Libel he win. The evidence is the book Unfit for Command. I also beleive that Kerry has a case for defamation of charachter and slander. He will win on at least one of these counts. Political speech is protected only to a point. Commercial speech (advertisements) is a liitle trickier. There are many thorny issues in this situation.[/quote]
I hope Kerry sues and I hope he wins. The rivalry between Kerry and O'Neill did not just get started. It goes all the way back to 1971, when O'Neill was recruited by the Nixon admin to front another sham veteran's group (called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace) as a counterpoint to Vietnam Veterans Against the War, the group that Kerry was involved with. They even debated on national tv, on the Dick Cavett show, and I am told that Kerry won that debate handily. I've only ever seen clips of their debate, never saw the whole thing. They both went on with their lives after the war. Kerry went on to become a successful politician, and O'Neill became a fairly successful lawyer. But O'Neill has never let go of their `war-time` rivalry. I'm sure he gets some sort of smug satisfaction from the damage he did to Kerry's presidential bid. Kerry needs to shut this guy up for good, and winning against him in court might just do it.
judykratochvil
Nov 21 2004, 09:49 PM
[quote=rox63]I hope Kerry sues and I hope he wins. The rivalry between Kerry and O'Neill did not just get started. It goes all the way back to 1971, when O'Neill was recruited by the Nixon admin to front another sham veteran's group (called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace) as a counterpoint to Vietnam Veterans Against the War, the group that Kerry was involved with. They even debated on national tv, on the Dick Cavett show, and I am told that Kerry won that debate handily. I've only ever seen clips of their debate, never saw the whole thing. They both went on with their lives after the war. Kerry went on to become a successful politician, and O'Neill became a fairly successful lawyer. But O'Neill has never let go of their `war-time` rivalry. I'm sure he gets some sort of smug satisfaction from the damage he did to Kerry's presidential bid. Kerry needs to shut this guy up for good, and winning against him in court might just do it.[/quote]
Ok, I relent. I forgot about the Cavett Debate in 1971. Thinking back to having watched the clips when `C-Span` aired it during the election; Kerry sure did win the debate handily.
You might be right, the only way to quiet this critic may be to win a large judgement in court.
ncMindy
Nov 21 2004, 10:01 PM
[quote]O'Neill has many connections to GOP politics. He was invited to speak at the 1972 Republican convention in support of Nixon. Bush's father unsuccessfully nominated O'Neill for a judgeship. One of his law partners was Bush's general counsel when Bush was governor of Texas.[/quote]
O'Neill can say he is `bi-partisan`, but this one quote is enough for me. By now, we are all very aware of the hold the Bush family has on their so called friends. You know, O'Neill may just get another gift from the Bush family, let's keep our eye on him.
suswah
Nov 21 2004, 11:04 PM
[quote=ncMindy][quote]O'Neill has many connections to GOP politics. He was invited to speak at the 1972 Republican convention in support of Nixon. Bush's father unsuccessfully nominated O'Neill for a judgeship. One of his law partners was Bush's general counsel when Bush was governor of Texas.[/quote]
O'Neill can say he is `bi-partisan`, but this one quote is enough for me. By now, we are all very aware of the hold the Bush family has on their so called friends. You know, O'Neill may just get another gift from the Bush family, let's keep our eye on him.[/quote]
I think he may be too tarnished for Bush. O'Neill will be forever linked to Nixon, Viet Nam and now Kerry - moreso if Kerry sues him. But I think O'Neill is very pleased with himself. The ghosts of Nixon, Watergate, and Viet Nam seem to be back.
It's really weird how all of this came around again. I still want to know how our country could let itself be hijacked. It took a phenomenal politician like Clinton to shore up the middle class and provide a progressive agenda for the future. And in four short years, all that work is gone.
I think O'Neill has received the best gift of all - he helped prevent his hated political rival from achieving the Presidency. I doubt that any gift from Bush could top that for him. I think he is to be feared. And maybe Bush should fear him, too.
ncMindy
Nov 21 2004, 11:13 PM
[quote]I think O'Neill has received the best gift of all - he helped prevent his hated political rival from achieving the Presidency. I doubt that any gift from Bush could top that for him. I think he is to be feared. And maybe Bush should fear him, too. [/quote]
Never thought about that, Susan. It's evident O'Neill knows as much about Bush as he does Kerry. Bush really does have a past to hide, so there could be a `check-mate` here somewhere.
suswah
Nov 21 2004, 11:41 PM
[quote=ncMindy][quote]I think O'Neill has received the best gift of all - he helped prevent his hated political rival from achieving the Presidency. I doubt that any gift from Bush could top that for him. I think he is to be feared. And maybe Bush should fear him, too. [/quote]
Never thought about that, Susan. It's evident O'Neill knows as much about Bush as he does Kerry. Bush really does have a past to hide, so there could be a `check-mate` here somewhere.[/quote]
Absolutely, Mindy. The link to the Right Wing Web site in my earlier post in this topic shows what a perfectionist he is and how he must obsess over DETAIL. He never seems unsure about any of it.
I think a libel lawsuit will bring the bitter rivalry to the front pages. And bring out the relationship that existed between the Bush campaign and O'Neill. I betcha the Bush administration won't want to see this happen at all. The threat of a lawsuit - maybe this will prove to be political "capital" for Kerry since Bush would rather O'Neill disappear from the landscape.
ncMindy
Nov 22 2004, 02:04 AM
[quote]Absolutely, Mindy. The link to the Right Wing Web site in my earlier post in this topic shows what a perfectionist he is and how he must obsess over DETAIL. He never seems unsure about any of it.
I think a libel lawsuit will bring the bitter rivalry to the front pages. And bring out the relationship that existed between the Bush campaign and O'Neill. I betcha the Bush administration won't want to see this happen at all. The threat of a lawsuit - maybe this will prove to be political "capital" for Kerry since Bush would rather O'Neill disappear from the landscape.[/quote]
Sure hope it goes forward. Is O'Neill that good of a lawyer, one who can and has covered his bases so well, you couldn't find anything if you wanted to? I know Kerry is a good prosecutor and he loves a good fight.
If it gets to that point, I'd bet on Kerry.
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